Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's call to create a roadmap to phase out fossil fuels was met with "mild applause", according to Victor Menotti, senior fellow at environmental think-tank Oakland Institute. Menotti, also US co-ordinator of a global climate justice campaign, spoke to Argus on the sidelines of the world leaders' summit, taking place just ahead of the UN Cop 30 climate summit in Belem, northern Brazil.
The slow pace of developed nations to transition away from fossil fuels makes some delegates skeptical of progress in that area, Menotti told Argus. Edited highlights follow.
Lula has called for a roadmap to phase out fossil fuels. How did other countries react?
There was some mild applause. Brazil said in its nationally determined contribution [climate plan] that it welcomes a discussion on a timeline for the [phase out]. But we just don't see the trust in this process at this point.
Developed countries have failed to [prevent] their fair share of emissions and to provide the finance that they agreed ten years ago in Paris and in Rio de Janeiro in 1992.
[Developed countries] need to be the fastest to eliminate their fossil fuels and to do the most to pay for the transition. So, until they begin to take measures to develop trust, it's going to be difficult to have any discussion on the roadmap discussed by Lula.
What is your opinion on the Baku-to-Belem finance roadmap?
It is looking disappointing.
It is looking at things such as private investment, carbon markets and changing multilateral development banks. Of course the banks need a reform, but we feel like there are too many false solutions in there and that the report is not anchoring the provision of public finance, which was [part of] the Paris and Rio deals.
Does Brazil's recent approval of drilling a well in the Foz do Amazonas basin create some dissonance with Lula's call to phase out fossil fuels?
To really be a leader and show the way, the Cop host could set an example to the world. But we know that's a difficult decision when you have the US, the biggest historical emitter, still selling a lot of fossil fuels, and Europe and Japan buying them.
US President Donald Trump will not join Cop 30 and neither will high-level US officials. Will that deter negotiations?
Not having the US here might mean that their delegates won't stir up negotiations too much, like we saw at [the UN Bonn climate talks] in June.
Will China also try to step up and lead conversations?
I think they're trying to. Their role to unite developing countries is certainly important.
It's pushing on the finance question and on questions of intellectual property and access to technology.
China is also currently the biggest annual polluter. So it has a big responsibility and it needs to be a leader.
What would be the most important outcome from Cop 30?
The just transition program is trying to agree on some institutional arrangements to continue that because it's going to expire at the end of the year. So the proposal is the Belem action mechanism, a climate justice initiative launched ahead of Cop 30 to support a globally just transition, especially for the Global South.
Many are considering that to be a litmus test for success here because it would better ground the climate justice agenda.
